Curse

Lux Aeterna · Apr 29, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Why does everyone tell me to use this ?

I don't like it as much as dev.

After speccing other hammer wars it seems like they have just as much trouble with it as I do, and rarely KD multiple people more than once or twice per match.

Monks are obsessed with me using either this or WE axe.

Song of concentration is great but I never see rangers, do mesmers use interrupts a lot ? I like to bring rush because rapid movement = good.

TheHaxor · Apr 29, 2009, 12:27 AM // 00:27

SoC is for the ghost on KotH. Obviously, you want to cap the center altar. You also use it if there are players on your team that absolutely have to get certain skills off (AoE on cap points, foes on relic run, etc.).

Rush is worthless because you should be bringing hammer bash. If you can't rush after your combo is over, then what is the point to bringing it? Even sprint would be better than rush. All rush ends up being is an adrenaline vacuum in the conventional hammer build. It really isn't that useful when you actually can use it.

Earthshaker is the choice if your team brings AoE. Knocking multiple people in AoE is almost always going to result in a kill. You should be knocking multiple people more than once or twice a match. If this isn't the case, then improve on your skill usage.

Lux Aeterna · Apr 29, 2009, 01:41 AM // 01:41

- Rush is because people never want to stay anywhere near me, and when they kite they kite quite a bit out of reach. This is annoying because it means I can't use flail very much, and it doesn't feel right unless I can use my IAS constantly as I'm a frenzy every 4 seconds person. I was considering using an Eviscerate build adapted to Battlerage because of the constant long distance kiting.

- I use rush in AB and like it, but my bar has an extra slot there. Draining adrenaline isn't as big a deal when you're not using frenzy oh no I can't rush chuck some spears k.

- Do you mean save earthshaker till I know I can get multiple people ? Generally if there are 2 or more adjacent enemies in AoE next to the big obvious earthshaker war, that team is dumb and would lose even if my elite slot was empty (see above). Any other time I'd want dev.

- Nobody ever does anything but snare me and run. (see above) Typically I'll be beating up a backline when the team's LC necro runs up, glares at me, casts grasping earth, and runs away while everyone leaves the vicinity.

- I'll try it some more, as devastating hammer is my favorite skill ever and ES is great in pve.

- WE axe seemed to work better because of rush.

- I like hammers better than axes.

Reverend Dr · Apr 29, 2009, 02:02 AM // 02:02

If you are rarely hitting more than one person with earthshaker in HA then you are just terrible. HA has really close quarters in every map, especially on altar caps and during body blocks on relic runs where knocking 4 people at a time is not uncommon. Since teams bring a lot of AoE KDing a number of people in AoE creates heavy pressure.

Rush is okay on hammer bars, it just isn't particularly amazing and you have to lose something to put in Song of Concentration, which as previously stated, is for the ghost.

Lux Aeterna · Apr 29, 2009, 02:24 AM // 02:24

So basically, keep using it because at some point It'll be useful.

Also I've noticed that most HA players stand in RoJ / go frenzy in heavy nukes, like I was just watching some hammer war to see how he played ES and he died to RoJ ...

My guild's trying to get into HA, and I've been interested / annoyed by the meta there...

Krill · Apr 29, 2009, 05:56 AM // 05:56

I usually run magehunter's because you can easily start a spike with it. With less people running Me/Rt tease heroes and virtually nobody running a rit that keeps WoW on the prot 24/7, this is good.

ES can be pretty epic at times though. Most people won't ball into adjacent range, you have to be on the lookout for when kiters cross paths and such. A simple tactic to get two with ES is when you're being linebacked, draw them into someone close and get them and the linebacker.

If you're Euro you run [mighty blow] and [shock] instead of [hammer bash] and [song of concentration] though

The only upside to dev hammer in HA is that you're often taking some kind of stray damage from AoE, making the skill effectively six adrenaline because of a weird point value for seven adrenaline skills.

Edwards · Apr 29, 2009, 05:57 AM // 05:57

The AoE from ES is extremely valuable in HA, because of small maps and bad players.

I remember being in a match that my team was losing on Fetid, when I KD'd both of the other team's monks in AoE, killing them both, which led to a team wipe and my team winning the game. Had I been running Dev Hammer, we would have lost. Will this happen often? No. But is it worth running ES just for the capability to do things like this? Yes. Unless you have an outstanding reason for running a different elite, ES is the skill of choice for HA hammer wars.

Gforce · Apr 29, 2009, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

- Do you mean save earthshaker till I know I can get multiple people ? Generally if there are 2 or more adjacent enemies in AoE next to the big obvious earthshaker war, that team is dumb and would lose even if my elite slot was empty (see above).

It should be the other way around, you ES multiple people and the fire ele puts AoE spells on them. Having some sort of voice communication will help coordinating this and killing stuff faster. Other people have already written useful things about how to actually KD multiple people.

Lux Aeterna · Apr 29, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

[mighty blow] and [shock]ninja:

Lol euros.

Basically I'm so used to stomp stomp stomping so many people with dev that anything else feels clunky and weird.

I'm good with earthshaker in pve, but rarely if ever play pve now.

On average, how fast will weakness be removed from enemy frontliners ?

Killed u man · Apr 29, 2009, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Lol euros.

Basically I'm so used to stomp stomp stomping so many people with dev that anything else feels clunky and weird.

I'm good with earthshaker in pve, but rarely if ever play pve now.

On average, how fast will weakness be removed from enemy frontliners ?

Instant, because urf shakur doesn't have weakness...

If you're talking 'boot dev hammer, depends on their monks. If thave heroes, and you don't have a taint (Heroes go mad over taint), they will smite condition the condition off before you can say: "lolwtfpwnd".

Else, it depends on their monks... Dev hammer sucks anyways. With elites such as RC, PnH and LS around, it'll get removed before you can get heavy blow off...

Krill · Apr 29, 2009, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

it'll get removed before you can get heavy blow off...

Nobody uses heavy blow with dev

It's just good because of lower adrenal cost. 6 adrenaline skills are 150 points of adrenaline and, 7 adrenaline skills 160 points and 8 adrenaline skills are 200 points. This means if you take 10% damage during the time dev is charging (~55-60 damage on an normal hammer set) it's a 6 adrenaline skill. That is a pretty significant difference from from ES and MHS over the course of a match because a lot of times you do a hammer combo, hit enraging and dev is instantly charged again.

Of course, the sages @ pvxwiki have determined that dev is not a good skill for HA

Also, consider that 2 SH eles or an SH + Shockwave use to be a lot more common in conjunction with with an ES warrior. With a single ele it is a little less attractive especially when heroes or a determined PD are camping him and making it difficult to cast.

dr love · Apr 29, 2009, 04:59 PM // 16:59

my buddy ES'd the 7 N/A in a bloodspike team. but our ele was nub, no AoE, and needless to say, we lost the match. ES is definitely better than dev (1 more adrenaline to KD multiple targets). but if you prefer going after solo targets, try magehunters. it's a prot's worst enemy

Lux Aeterna · Apr 29, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

it'll get removed before you can get heavy blow off...

That's why you run bash, although I've only once encountered a monk attentive enough to keep me from using heavy blow when I had it briefly.

Also, it costs their monk a bit more energy at the simple cost of less adrenaline for you, you know about condition pressure right ?

Does anyone ever use cripslash in HA?

Reverend Dr · Apr 29, 2009, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

So basically, keep using it because at some point It'll be useful.

No you keep using it because if you aren't regularly knocking more than one person then either you are facing amazing teams (you aren't its HA) or you are just terrible at target selection.

Sun Fired Blank · Apr 30, 2009, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Before Unholy Temples, there is no answer.

After Unholy Temples (except for Golden Gates), the answer is Earth Shaker.

Lux Aeterna · Apr 30, 2009, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Used it a bit more, liked it a bit more, keeping rush because people run around a lot and the PnH has song of concentration though I bet he never even touches it.

Does W/E shock axe have any advantage over WE axe ?

Sankt Hallvard · May 01, 2009, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Does W/E shock axe have any advantage over WE axe ?

Stronger spike, better shutdown/utility at the expense of less pressure and less frequent spikes.

Edwards · May 01, 2009, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Does W/E shock axe have any advantage over WE axe ?

It's a billion times more fun to play.

Lux Aeterna · May 02, 2009, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Next question: why don't hammer wars in HA even try to quarter lock?

Like I met some dude from [FINE] in AB and he'd just let you stand up for a while after dev, this also seems to be the case with most ES wars in HoH on obs.

Sun Fired Blank · May 02, 2009, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Most of FINE are not HA rocket scientists, and most HA rocket scientists are bad anyways. But you don't have to QKD all the time. It's worth QKDing monks if you know it'll score the kill (or get you close to it), and it's worth QKDing if you think they'll screw your second knock with an interrupt, but otherwise you don't really have to bother.

Sometimes the difference between a kill and survival is whether you QKD Spirit Bond / Patient / Life Sheath, and you better be able to do it when it matters. But sometimes there's no difference at all, and then it's not even worth bothering.